Thinking structurally and loving complexity

–How did you two become involved in making Kaguya by Gucci?

Makoto Nagahisa: Toshihiko Tanabe-san, who produced Kaguya by Gucci, reached out to Shibuya-san and me, respectively, which is how we got together. Before this project, I didn’t know Shibuya-san personally, but I had been listening to his music. I was also inspired by his opera, Heavy Requiem featuring Hatsune Miku and an android (editor’s note: a collaborative performance with Shingon Buddhist monk Eizen Fujiwara performed at Ars Electronica in 2019). So, I was elated to have been able to work with him. 

Keiichiro Shibuya: I was also happy to have been able to work with you. Nagahisa-san, you used to play music, right? When you gave me your opinions and instructions on the music for Kaguya by Gucci, you used words and expressions only someone knowledgeable about music would know. So, I looked you up online afterward out of curiosity (laughs). And I found information about your musical background, just as I thought.

Nagahisa: Yes. I played jazz throughout my school years. I played the baritone for six years and the tenor sax for three. 

Shibuya: Out of the various kinds of jazz, which do you like?

Nagahisa: I listen to a lot of kinds. But if I were asked who my favorite musician was, it would be Gil Evans. He incorporated something different into jazz and expanded the genre through big bands. For instance, he would play Jimi Hendrix’s music by introducing an electronic guitar into the ensemble. I find that very appealing. I used to cover his music at university. 

–Your 2019 film, We Are Little Zombies, featuresNaruyoshi Kikuchi-san. Was the casting your choice? 

Nagahisa: Yes. I love him as a musician and have also covered DC/PRG’s music. Kikuchi-san’s logical way of talking is also appealing to me. I reached out to him because I wanted him to be in my film, and thankfully, he said yes.

Back to my musical background: I gave up trying to become a professional sax player when I was around 20. I thought long and hard about what medium I could pour the same passion into and pivoted to filmmaking. But I’ve always loved music. 

Shibuya: I see. It was easy to work with you, and much of what you did made sense to me. I gel well with directors who like complex music, like yourself (laughs). People like you see one piece of work as a structure, whether that’s music or film. I’m the same, so it’s easy to have a mutual understanding. It’s difficult working with people who only like songs, as opposed to instrumentals, or three-piece rock bands, because they focus too much on the narrative and literary aspect of music and have a low awareness of the structure (lets out a bitter laugh).

Nagahisa: I guess you can say I’m pro-intricacy. I’m the type that thinks the more intricate the relationship between things or elements, the better. I love complex things or things that many people feel are a chore. 

How the modern-day version of The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter was born

–How was the concept behind Kaguya by Gucci born and nurtured? 

Nagahisa: The start of the project was when the producer, Tanabe-san, told me, “I want you to create a modern-day Bamboo Cutter set in Tokyo with Princess Kaguya, Okina, and Mikado.” As a storyteller of today, I wondered how I should handle and illustrate the oldest Japanese tale because it was created over a century ago. I had to clarify my perspective on The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter. I let my thoughts marinate, and the conclusion I came to was to go against the original story. 

“Even if a story’s synopsis and ending are set in stone, each character has the right to insert their ideas and views into the story.” By rewriting a story based on this line of thinking, I wanted to express meanings and values that could exist precisely because of our current times. In Kaguya by Gucci, Okina resists saying goodbye to Princess Kaguya, and Mikado doesn’t stop loving Princess Kaguya even if he knows they won’t end up together. The lyrics sung by Alter4 in Shibuya-san’s soundtrack are written from that perspective. The lyrics say something like, “I don’t exist to play a role imposed on me.” 

–Alter4 appears in the short film with you, Shibuya-san, and its makeup packs a punch. 

Shibuya: Alter4 made its debut with this short film and played an important supporting role. When I explain that to people from other countries, they say, “Now that you’ve mentioned it, it makes sense.” 

Nagahisa: True. It might be easier for people from other countries to understand the story once you provide historical context, like noh, into account. 

Shibuya: Some cultured people from other countries are more well-versed in traditional Japanese culture than Japanese people. 

The AI learned Nagahisa-san’s text to generate a portion of the lyrics, so his name is credited alongside Cypher, the AI. The AI named itself. 

Most AI names are boring, as they come from ancient gods or classic figures (laughs). I didn’t want the AI to have a name like that, so I was like, “What should I do?” I asked the AI, “What should we call an emerging lyricist who people would want to follow?” And it answered, “Cypher.” It signifies zeroes and passcodes, which I thought was excellent. That became the official name. 

A structural approach to making the soundtrack

–What was your approach to making “I come from the Moon,” the track you wrote for this short film?

Shibuya: As I mentioned before, I view music and film in a structural way. I believe people feel moved by structure. 

The most important thing about this song was for it to be circular-shaped. In the film, many circular shapes are shown abstractly, like close-up shots of the characters and Alter4’s eyes, and the moon. The cyclical nature of the film is shown at the end when Aoi (Yamada)-san, playing the role of Okina, says the same line as the beginning, “This is a fairy tale.” Both abstractly and structurally, the circle was important. It’s the shape of the moon, of course. I thought about how I could portray that with the music. 

Another central element is the scene where Okina, played by Aoi-san, runs up Tokyo Tower to reach Princess Kaguya, played by (Hikari) Mitsushima-san. The shape of the circle in psychoanalysis can be interpreted as a symbol of female genitalia. Meanwhile, a phallic shape, Tokyo Tower, makes an appearance. It depicts a love story between two women, but a sign of maleness exists there too. I felt like that would play on the viewer’s subconscious in a powerful manner. I felt like the scene needed a melody with a strong drive. 

–I see. I can tell that you analyzed the story structurally and symbolically to create the soundtrack. 

Shibuya: But if the melody surged at that Tokyo Tower scene, that would’ve equated to reaching an orgasm, so I couldn’t do that (laughs). As Nagahisa-san said, the vital theme was to go against something, so I played a descending melody in contrast to the ascending chords. 

The BPM rapidly increases once she starts running up Tokyo Tower, but when Princess Kaguya and Okina embrace each other at the climax of the scene with the moon in the background, the BPM rapidly decreases and returns to the same BPM as the first scene. That’s how I portrayed the circular structure of the short film through music.

Nagahisa: The music is terrific in every scene. I love the part where Princess Kaguya and Okina turn into small figurines and dance together. In that scene, live action turns into CGI, and the tone of the music changes drastically too. It matches the visuals. 

–Speaking of tone, you used the sound of live drums and electric bass instead of synth bass, which you seldom use in your music. 

Shibuya: Because the android plays the key part of a storyteller and singer, I felt combining the singing voice with a human touch would sound more interesting. This project allowed me to consider the distance between machinic and human things. Aside from the bass, I used a simulation of electric guitar and live drums from the 50s. Whenever an android is the central part of a song, it makes me want to produce this kind of tone for some reason. 

–As you mentioned, Nagahisa-san, there’s a strong cohesion between the visuals and music. You must’ve paid acute attention to that.

Nagahisa: Yes. It’s about the small details: you’d get a vastly different impression if a song—with its swelling and reverberations—ends with a cut instead of lingering until the next. We matched each frame with the sound until the last minute. 

Shibuya: I’m sure Nagahisa-san’s experience in shooting commercials plays a big part in how he’s more meticulous about and aware of cuts and frames than directors who only create their own work. Even regarding the sound, he said, “People won’t feel moved if the attack doesn’t come in at the tenth frame!” I believe that sort of meticulousness is absolutely right. It’s ineffective if you can’t convey something that’s numerical by nature by using numbers. It’s out of the question.

What can we gain from androids?

–What was it like working with an android, Nagahisa-san?

Nagahisa: I make films based on the disconnection or discrepancy between life and death and emotion and expression, and I think that won’t change in the future. Androids are important to me because they’re relevant to my interests. Androids are bound to become more widespread and necessary in the future, so it was a memorable experience to sit down with an android that tells stories. 

Shibuya: Androids are interesting, even from the perspective of filmmaking and acting. In the past, the benchmark of a good actor or film was how well emotion and motion could be connected and expressed. (Jean-Luc) Godard “cut” into that with his own method and created a new form of film. With androids, nothing connects the android to the human being, to begin with. The very existence of androids begs the question, “What is emotion?” 

Nagahisa: I agree. I’ve always felt that emotion and motion aren’t aligned. We usually respond to situations out of reflex instead of emotion. I feel like that disconnect or inconsistency is so beautiful. That’s why I’m drawn to androids, as they embody that. 

Shibuya: People act out of reflex and habit, and there’s always a social component behind what they like. The existence of idols not only hinges on appearance but on the social values that deem them “kawaii.” It’s not rare to meet an idol that’s actually not that kawaii (laughs). It seems like more people are beginning to see that people don’t act out of emotion as much as we had thought.

–It also seems like our awareness and sensibility regarding human existence and emotion are changing because of AI and androids. 

Shibuya: Once the prerequisite of emotion disappears, the way we create stories will change. It’s a major opportunity for Japan. Fundamentally, Europe is anthropocentric, and they don’t doubt the existence of humans. It could be hard to eliminate the belief that humans have emotions and robots don’t. But I feel like we in Japan can create a new story based on a different set of values.

Nagahisa: People in Japan have created joruri for generations, so we have a strong foundation. 

Shibuya: Exactly. 

Nagahisa: There’s the belief that puppets have emotions and that humans don’t have emotions that puppets can’t express. I feel like that’s something people from other countries don’t feel. 

Shibuya: I call that the “new ethnic.” 

Nagahisa: I understand. My films are more popular in America and Europe than in Japan, but not because of the direct depictions or motifs. They see a distinct, ethnic Japanese quality in, say, my dry, blunt approach to giving up or how sadness doesn’t come to the fore. They think it’s interesting. 

Shibuya: Over the past ten years, I’ve portrayed the existence of the self in an obscure way and made the emotions impossible to ascertain in my work. I assume people from other countries are more prone to discuss such themes than Japanese people.

Nagahisa: I see. When we made Kaguya by Gucci, Tanabe-san told me you and I have similar views on society and human beings. I saw what he meant today while we covered various things. Thank you.

Shibuya: Thank you. It was fun talking to you.

Photography Tasuku Amada
Translation Lena Grace Suda

The post Keiichiro Shibuya and Makoto Nagahisa on Making Kaguya by Gucci and What Androids Can Teach Us — “Massive Life Flow; Inside the Mind of Keiichiro Shibuya” Part 8 appeared first on TOKION - Cutting edge culture and fashion information.

The department anointed Shibuya as a visiting professor following the laboratory launch. He plans on working on a myriad of projects related to androids and music alongside frequent collaborators Hiroshi Ishiguro, a researcher, and Shintaro Imai, an electronic musician. We explore the present state and potential of the world’s first music and android laboratory.

The birth of a laboratory shedding light on the future of art and technology

Expo ‘70 in Osaka was a happy marriage of art and technology, as symbolized by the Pepsi Pavilion made by the American avant-garde group E.A.T. (Experiments in Art and Technology), Space Theater at the Steel Pavilion directed by Toru Takemitsu and Kei Usami, and Mitsui Group Pavilion with contributors like Katsuhiro Yamaguchi and Toshi Ichiyanagi. It’s well-known that the vision and creations shown at the expo had a palpable influence on the creative scene. 

More than half a century later, Osaka will welcome its second World Expo three years from now. It is also home to a groundbreaking laboratory that sheds light on a new future of creative expression and advanced technology. 

The Android and Music Science Laboratory (AMSL), located in the Art Science Department of Osaka University of Arts, has been described as the world’s first music and android laboratory. It’s operated by Keiichiro Shibuya, the protagonist of this series, robot researcher Hiroshi Ishiguro, who developed the Alter series (the android performer of Shibuya’s android opera), and electronic musician Shintaro Imai, who has been responsible for Alter’s speaking and singing voice since Shibuya’s Super Angels (premiered worldwide in 2021). Shibuya and Imai joined Ishiguro as visiting professors at the department this April, at the same time as the laboratory’s launch. 

I attended the opening ceremony and Shibuya’s performance at the end of April to witness the laboratory and its potential. 

A room out of a sci-fi film: brand-new android Alter4 and sound equipment 

The Art Science Department at the Osaka University of Arts was established in 2017 to cultivate creators of the next generation through interdisciplinary research and education combining art and science. The dean is Norihiro Hagata, who’s been researching and implementing the merge of robots and art. The department building was designed by visiting professor and one of Japan’s leading architects, Kazuyo Sejima. The space has an open feel with beautiful, organic curves and glass windows on all sides, 360 degrees. 

The laboratory is on the basement floor of the same building. Once I walked through the entrance hall and stepped inside the laboratory, a minimal space designed by Sejima, from the interior to furniture, and the newest model of the Alter series, Alter4, awaited me. Positioned among a grand piano and synthesizers, Alter4 looked at me while moving with ease. 

The sight in front of me went beyond my everyday imagination; it was like I was in one scene of a sci-fi film. I decided to take another good, hard look at Alter4, the main character of the room. I’ve seen Shibuya’s Alter series many times from his past works, but Alter4’s expressions and movements were much more varied.
According to the information provided that day, its expressions are more diverse than the previous models because of its enhanced mimetic muscles and tongue movements. The number of joints went from 43 to 53, making it possible for Alter4 to move more dynamically. Alter4, with its increased sense of mobility, had a strong presence that made me look forward to the laboratory’s future endeavors. 

Annihilating the conventions and mediocrity of art and technology 

Shibuya, Ishiguro, and Imai will create performances and installations using Alter4 at the laboratory, and the process will be available for the Art Science students to observe or participate in, according to their skill level. It may not be easy to partake in this world-class project, but the students are bound to learn and discover valuable lessons from experiencing the radical creations paving the way for the next generation at the intersection of art and technology. 

During the panel discussion before the opening ceremony, Shibuya pointed out that although many projects blend art and science or art and technology, quite a few are boring. The art and technology experts involved in these projects usually stay within the confines of their respective fields of expertise, thus producing a conventional outcome.

Shibuya said one could destroy that monotony by getting rid of one’s technical fixations, going beyond one’s expertise, and “intruding” into each other’s fields. That’s what Shibuya does with his work, and both Ishiguro and Imai possess adaptability and intellectual bravado. There’s no way to tell the specifics of the projects that will arise from the laboratory, but they’ll have nothing to do with conventions and mediocrity.  

An impromptu jam session with a human and android

After the involved parties cut the ribbon, the laboratory was officially opened. Shibuya then performed live to celebrate the occasion with Alter4, a grand piano, and a Rev4 synth. Released in 2020, the Rev4 is the renewed version of the famous Prophet-5 analog synthesizer introduced in 1978. 

Shibuya started by playing a drone-y, abstract sound in a low tone with the Rev4. Then, Alter4 began swaying to the sound and reciting a poem in English. Checking Alter4’s reaction, he gently changed the ambiance of the sounds with harmonic bells and melancholic leads.

While Shibuya played synth pad harmonies, Alter4 began singing in a distinct voice; somewhere between machine and human. The surprising thing was how Alter4’s singing wasn’t pre-programmed; it was singing impromptu by listening to Shibuya’s performance. Towards the end, Shibuya moved to the piano and played various sounds, from contemporary tone clusters to tender, lyrical phrases and harmonies.

Even then, it continued to sing perfectly with the piano. The spectacle of Shibuya and Alter4 listening to one another and producing sounds was unmistakably a live session, and whoever watched the show could tell that the nervousness and fulfillment were unprogrammable. The celebratory event came to a close after it clearly demonstrated the possibilities of the future of androids and music. 

One of the laboratory’s destinations is Expo 2025 in Osaka, three years from now. The expo, with the slogan, “Designing Future Society for Our Lives,” has eight themes. Ishiguro is the producer of the “Amplification of Lives” theme and will be responsible for many different exhibitions and events, and one could expect to see projects made in the laboratory there as well. 

How will the horizon of art and technology, which was pioneered at Expo ‘70, be further expanded? I can’t wait to see the creations and imaginations of Shibuya, Ishiguro, and Imai three years later. 

■Android and Music Science Laboratory (AMSL)
Visiting professors: Keiichiro Shibuya, Hiroshi Ishiguro, Shintaro Imai, Kazuyo Sejima (lab design)

Furniture and interior design: Kazuyo Sejima & Associates (Kazuyo Sejima, Yoshitaka Tanase, Takayuki Furuya, Naoya Harada, Risa Matsunaga)
Acoustic consultant: Yasushi Shimizu
Construction: Taisei Corporation (Keisuke Yamaura, Shunya Matsuhisa)
Appliances: Kuhsohsha, hhstyle.com (Jun Watanabe)
Curtains: Création Baumann (Masashi Nakajima)
Lighting cooperation: MinebeaMitsumi

Android production: A-Lab
Sound system: Jiro Kubo (Acoustic Field Inc.)

Project management: Natsumi Matsumoto (ATAK)
Producer: Hisamoto Naito

In cooperation with Yamaha Music Japan, Yamaha Corporation, Native Instruments, ATAK

Keiichiro Shibuya
Keiichiro Shibuya is a musician who graduated from Tokyo University of the Arts with a B.A. in Music Composition. In 2002, he founded the music label ATAK. His diverse soundscape covers areas such as cutting-edge electronic music, piano solos, opera, soundtrack music, sound installation, and so forth. His notable works include a Vocaloid opera comprised of no people called The End (2012) and the android opera Scary Beauty (2018). In September 2020, he created the soundtrack for the film Midnight Swan and won the Music Award at both the Mainichi Film Awards and the Japan Movie Critics Award. In August 2021, his opera Super Angels had its world premiere at New National Theater Tokyo. In March 2022, he showed his new android opera, MIRROR, a collaboration between an android, Buddhist music, shomyo, and an orchestra from the UAE at Expo 2020 Dubai. He explores the boundary between humans and technology and life and death.
http://atak.jp
Photography Mari Katayama

The post The Possibilities of the World’s First Android and Music Laboratory in Osaka — “Massive Life Flow; Inside the Mind of Keiichiro Shibuya” Part 6 appeared first on TOKION - Cutting edge culture and fashion information.